How to buy vintage shotguns without getting burned. Pt. 1 of 3 …..

Boss & Co. Side-by-Side Pigeon Gun 12 Gauge (Assisted Opening - 1 1/4" oz. Nitro Proofed)
Boss & Co. Side-by-Side Pigeon Gun 12 Gauge (Assisted Opening – 1 1/4″ oz. Nitro Proofed)

Gun collecting is a great way to lose money. Believe, I know. Over the last 25 years, I’ve bought everything from Parkers to Purdeys. I made some bad deals and some good ones. Most importantly for you, I’ve learned what you need to know to buy and sell vintage shotguns without getting burned.

A. H. Fox/Savage Sterlingworth Deluxe Brush Model SxS Double Barrel American Shotgun
A. H. Fox/Savage Sterlingworth Deluxe Brush Model SxS Double Barrel American Shotgun

Last September, I shared my hard-earned knowledge at the Orvis Game Fair in Millbrook, NY. This Monday, Wednesday, and Friday we’ll cover Part 1 of my presentation. Next week, I’ll post part 2, starting Monday. Part 3 will appear the week after that.

 How to buy without getting burned

Part 1: The Three Most Important Questions to Ask a Seller

Question 1. Is the gun all original or has it been redone?

TOP: A 28g Parker VH BOTTOM: a 12g Parker VH
TOP: A 28g Parker VH BOTTOM: a 12g Parker VH, both guns are all original

WHAT DOES “ORIGINAL” MEAN?

When we talk a gun’s “finish”, we’re referring to stuff like the blueing on the barrels and triggerguard, the color-case hardening on the action, and the finish applied to the forend and stock. When these finishes are “original”, they’re the ones the gunmaker applied to the firearm when the gun was new. When a gun is “all original”, all its finishes are original.

When a gun is redone or refinished, one or more of its finishes have been reapplied. Re-blued or re-blacked barrels are the most common types of refinish you’ll come across. Refinished stocks and recut checkering are also common. Sometimes, people re-color a gun’s action, too (especially on American guns).

William Greener 10g Percussion Side-by-Side 1853 New York Exhibition
William Greener 10g Percussion Side-by-Side 1853 New York Exhibition

WHY DOES “ORIGINAL” MATTER?

Generally, the more original a gun is, the more valuable it is. While refinished guns can be excellent shooters, they’re never as valuable as comparable, all-original examples — regardless of what some sellers will tell you.

So when buying a gun, the first thing to ask is: “Is it all original or has it been redone? If the seller says “Yes, it’s all original”, then great, you know what you’re dealing with.

Extremely fine Parker VH 20ga with original hang tags
Extremely fine Parker VH 20ga with original hang tags

But if the seller says redone, you need to follow up with “What has been redone or refinished?”

A lot can go wrong when a gun is refinished. Barrels can be reblued the wrong way; Checkering can be ruined when it’s recut by unskilled hands; Actions can warp if they’re recolored the wrong way. So it’s important to figure out what has been refinished and then look into how well that work was performed.

Something else to consider: Why was the gun refinished in the first place? Some people reblue barrels and refinish stocks to freshen up how they look. But people also reblue barrels after a dent or bulge has been repaired or after the barrels have had significant rusting and pitting removed. And every time barrels are reblued, a little metal is sanded off and polished away. A little of the barrels’s overall health goes with it.

When a gun is all original, you don’t have to worry about any of this.

Wednesday I’ll discuss the 2nd most important question to ask when buying a vintage shotgun:

What’s the condition of the barrels?

How much?! Crazy bidding on this 20g A.H. Fox AE SxS …..

A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30" BBLS, RARE GUN!!...MFD 1920
A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30″ BBLS, RARE GUN!!…MFD 1920

I like Fox shotguns, but after seeing the bidding action on this 20g AE, I can see some guys like them a LOT more than I do. It’s on Gunauction.com now and the listing ends November 4, 2018, @ 5:03 pm.

A.H. Fox made side-by-side shotguns in three gauges: 12, 16 & 20. Of these, the twenties are the scarcest. That being said, 20g Fox shotguns are far from rare, and a typical double barrel, A-grade 20 gauge goes for $3,500 – $4,500. As you can see, this one has popped ahead of those prices, and it’s on track to sell for a lot more.

A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30" BBLS, RARE GUN!!...MFD 1920
A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30″ BBLS, RARE GUN!!…MFD 1920

Why? Four reasons: It has a single trigger, it has 30″ barrels, it has ejectors (the “E” in AE), and it has some decent color-case hardening on the action. Those features plus the decent condition put this gun in the real-hard-to-find category.

On top of that, a lot of guys are just nuts when it comes to vintage American shotguns.

A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30" BBLS, RARE GUN!!...MFD 1920
A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30″ BBLS, RARE GUN!!…MFD 1920

A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30″ BBLS, RARE GUN!!…MFD 1920, C&R OK, NO RESERVE: Here’s a rather scarce A.H. Fox shotgun. Manufactured in Philadelphia, this is an AE Grade chambered for 20-gauge shells. It has a number of desirable features. As an AE, it naturally has automatic ejectors. Additionally, this gun is equipped with the Fox-Kautzky single-selective trigger, has 30-inch barrels, and 2-3/4″ chambers. The barrels and frame are made of “Chromox” high-pressure fluid steel. The frame is engraved in the A-pattern typical of the period. The butt is of the half pistol grip design, the forestock is of the splinter design with Deeley style latch.

A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30" BBLS, RARE GUN!!...MFD 1920
A.H. FOX ~ AE GRADE 20-GAUGE, SINGLE-TRIGGER, EJECTORS, 30″ BBLS, RARE GUN!!…MFD 1920

Overall condition is very good. There is still case colors present on the frame in the more protected areas…I’d call it about 20-30% or so. The barrels retain most of their original blue finish but there are a few areas of thinning and some very minor spots of surface freckling. I’d call the barrel finish about 85% overall. There are no dents or pits. The stocks are in good condition but have been professionally refinished. Length of pull measures 13-1/2″; Drop @ Heel is 2-1/8″; Drop @ Comb is 1-1/2″. This gun functions well. Lock up is good with no significant looseness. The single trigger functions as it should, as do both ejectors and the automatic safety. Both bores are bright and free of any pitting. Choke constrictions measure approximately .016″ (about Modified choke) in both barrels. Weight is 6-pounds, 6-ounces. According to available serial number information, this Fox was manufactured in about 1920. A nice and rather unusual gun that’s fast approaching her 100th birthday!

Auction alert: An awesome Rigby 12g SxS…

Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:
Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:

You never know what you’ll find at Gunbroker.com. While a lot of the shotguns there don’t interest me, every now and then something special pops up–like this.

It’s a John Rigby & Co hammerless sidelock built on a Rigby-Bissel rising bite action with a snap-action underlever and Purdey-style bites.

To open the gun, you push forward the lever that wraps over the triggerguard. After the gun is fired, doing this also cocks the hammers.

Overall, this SxS shotgun is stunning. But what really impresses is the engraving. Fantastic. Just look at how tight and well laid out it is. Check out how much depth it has.

John Rigby & Co is the oldest gunmaking firm in continuous existence in the English-speaking world. (Yes, Beretta is older, but they speak Italian.) Founded in Dublin, Ireland, in 1775, Rigby patented their legendary Rigby-Bissel rising bite action in 1879 and built them regularly until 1910.

In that time, about 1,000 guns and rifles were built using the patent (this side-by-side is the 205th they built). While the rising-bite was famous for its strength, it required extensive hand–which made it very expensive to build. Rigby reintroduced their rising-bite action in 2015 and the company is still building them today. Prices start at £95,000.

Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:
Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:

Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun: Rare and beautiful Vintage Rigby “Third Rising Bite” Sidelock 12 bore double game gun. Gun # 15441 (ca. 1884) is an English “BEST” and is about as good as it gets. Lightweight at just 6 lbs, 8 oz. using the smooth-topped “Snap” action with the legendary Bissell’s 1879 patent Third Rising Bite (usage # 205) and Purdey double underbites. About as strong an action there is – the same lock-up used on their legendary double rifles.

Features trademark beveled Rigby “Dipped” lock plates and the Old English script lettering that Rigby is known for. Perfectly laid out deep-cut scroll and signature carved Fern fences and action body are as about as good as it gets! Fore end is splinter type with perfect borders and desirable Rigby’s “Patent” throw lever.

CONDITION: Excellent as tastefully and professionally restored without sacrificing that aged-in look coveted by vintage collectors. Original 30” fluid compressed steel barrels with maker’s name and London and Dublin addresses in bold script on the top rib. Nitro proved barrels have 100% of their restored deep rust blue.

Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:
Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:

BARREL LENGTH: 30″ CHAMBERS: 2 3/4″ BORE DIAMETERS: L. .735 R. .739 MIN WALLS: L. .025 R. .025 (one small spot near muzzle on underside @ .021 likely an old dent repair) CHOKES: L. .015 R. .000 (true Cylinder)

Original, highly figured French walnut stocks are excellent as lightly re-oiled – no cracks/dings. Checkering is sharp & near perfect with a VG, nicely aged, original horn butt plate. Straight grip stock measures: 14 1/8” x 2” x 3” at heel.

Mechanically excellent, timed screws are VG and everything is tight and functioning properly. Cased in an English made, custom-fitted all-leather case with stitched corners, wool felt lined with shot card and trade label all of which are excellent (case alone is worth $600). Has several accessories which include a near perfect vintage sling complete with forged sling-hooks to match the factory loops on the gun – rare find indeed!

Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:
Excellent Vintage Rigby Rising Bite 12 gauge Side-by-Side British Shotgun:

Also, has vintage A&F “New York” marked snap caps in excellent condition. I’m the owner, so I’m open to trade offers on Manton / Purdey double muzzleloader shotguns; flint or Percussion in shootable condition. Here’s a chance to get ahold of a real-deal Rigby classic from the heyday of English gun making! NOTE: This is the only Rising Bite Rigby shotgun on the market today! Don’t miss out!

 

Love doubles & live within 5 hours of Rhode Island?

2012 Vintage Cup, Addieville, RI

If you love double barrel shotguns and you live within 5 hours of Rhode Island, you absolutely have to check out the 2012 Vintage Cup, being held Sept. 27-30 at Addieville East Farm in Mapleville, RI.

The Vintage Cup is the finest event in the country for vintage side-by-sides and fine doubles. From Parkers to Purdeys, this event will give you the chance to tons of fine shotguns, all together in one place.

It’s also a great place to do some shooting and to see some great exhibitions. Once of my favorites to check out is the dangerous rifle, big bore shoot. Check out these videos for a taste of what you can expect (that doubling 4 gauge side-by-side had to hurt)!